Tim Blair

the American people are too smart to be influenced by people outside of the country.

Does this mean no more morning Blair?

You've got to love the professor that wrote "9/11 gave America a free gift of goodwill, and it poured in from all around the world. Bush took it as a free gift."

Yeah, free gift. All it cost was two skyscrapers, four airplanes and 3,000 lives.

Loved the typically slanted NY Times article, hadn't seen that before. That last little dig about the European view of Americans being too inattentive or arrogant to care about what goes on outside our country was amusing. Like those are the only two possible reasons. Um, how about maybe we're just BUSIER than lots of people in Europe??? Sheesh.

"Um, how about maybe we're just BUSIER than lots of people in Europe???"

I rather think it's because little of note goes on in Europe. Their lidless eye is trained on us because they want to know what's going to happen next: what movies, books, CDs, TV shows, etc. are going to come out; what our economy is going to do and how theirs will adjust in response; what decisions we are making in the political realm, both internal and external; what new technology and innovations we are going to bring them -- when the next internet or miracle drug is coming; the list goes on and on. What comes our way from the east? Harassment, ingratitude, envy, and smelly cheese.

Besides, I thought that gifts were, by default, already free. I've never heard of this strange European custom of paying people who give you gifts.

"We all feel it is not a good idea. I think it was unwise. It is so poorly thought-out."

It strikes me that the Guardian simply followed the lead of the Democratic Presidential Campaign Plan.

The purpose of the Guardian's campaign is not to help Kerry or to hurt Bush or indeed have any influence on the US election. Whether it hurts of helps Kerry is neither her nor there.

Its purpose is to help lefty Guardian readers feel good about themselves. Pretty much the objective of most left wing policies. So far it probably has been successful at acheiving its aim.

From one letter: "If Bush is finally elected properly, that will be the time for Americans travelling abroad to simulate a Canadian accent."

Simulate a Canadian accent abroad? With all due respect to our Canadian friends, I wouldn't affect a Canadian accent at gunpoint, anywhere, at any time, quite simply because I'm American. I'm supposed to be ashamed of that or something?

Of course you are, Butch! Don't you know that AmeriKKKa is in the grip of the terrible Chimpy McBusHitler's gang of thugs and toadies? The roundup of all left-leaning, morally superior college professors is already underway, you deluded fool!

"I rarely consider the opinions of idiots."
-- Dorothy Parker

Didn't you know that we're supposed to grovel and beg forgiveness because we angered the poor, misunderstood terrorists so badly that they just couldn't stand it and blew up the World Trade Towers as a justified act of revenge?

That we're supposed to be ashamed?

/blech!

That's what they want us to do. My answer:

Hell, no! I'm damned proud to be an American. And the world can kiss my overweight, gun-toting English/Irish/Welsh/Scot/French (spit) butt!

Elizabeth
Imperial Keeper

Actually, imitating a Canadian accent (or an Ontario accent) isn't that hard. Just listen to some people from the Rochester (NY) area for a while and mimic them - and remember to throw in at least one ``eh?'' per sentence.

As for the Grauniads, I hope some enterprising American newspaper will obtain the home addresses of Antonia Fraser, Richard Dawkins, John LeCarre and all the principal folks writing for that rag, and distribute them. Then we can all write them nice letters explaining how benighted they are and telling them how to vote.

It's already had a bit of a backlash, and lots of folks are steamed, which tickles me no end!

25% of dumocraps think sKerry is going to lose. How is that for an energized base?

The article in the Dayton Daily News this morning (yes, it's a rag whose editors' collective lips are firmly planted on the ASSociated Press's butt) characterized most of the people who got letters as Kerry voters who are befuddled by all the hooplah (poor dears). The paper carefully steered away from describing any outrage, but did seem to hint that The Guardian's letter writing campaign would have little effect. Reading between the lines, which I have to do a lot in that paper, I'd say a lot of people in Clark County are insulted.

Bush is gonna win and the terrorists are going to poop in their panties. If its all the muslims against us I don't care. Bring it on. Their religion is terrorist and they want to kill us anyway. They should convert or just hide. If Kerry did win we would be in big trouble and we'd probably have to take over and put Bush in anyway. Kerry loves the terrorists.

No doubt ah-boot it Annalucia. But shouldn't that be aye?

Pet Peeve warning!

One thing I've noticed - most, if not all commntators/pundits/newsies seem to refer to GWB as, simply, "Bush".

That's fine when he's expressing a private opinion, or answering questions as a private citizen, but when the guy is speaking ex officio, he is the President, and should be referred to as such. Try "President Bush" sometimes, you guys, ok?

/rant

That's true mojo. And as much as it pains me to say so, that etiquette applies to Senator Kerry as well.

If it helps, respect the office, not the office holder.

I'm glad I'm not the only one kind of bugged by that, Mojo. I was watching Maureen Dowd on Charlie Rose a few weeks ago, where she constantly referred to the President as "Dubya" and Donald Rumsfield as "Rummy". What a consumate professional.

...I wouldn't affect a Canadian accent at gunpoint...

Not even for mocking purposes, eh? Hoser.

Reminds me of the clowns I went to college with - the ones who would always carefully sew Canadian flags on their backpacks before going off to Europe for the traditional Backpack Tour. It was a shorthand way of affixing a halo to your own head - "Look at me - I'm not one of those rabble, I'm One Of The Correct!" The funny thing is that when I was over there, I heard a few jokes about how as soon as you saw a Canadian flag, you pretty much knew you were dealing with an American. Heh.

Maybe they should have sewn a UN flag instead of the Maple Leaf......?

"If Bush is finally elected properly, that will be the time for Americans travelling abroad to simulate a Canadian accent."

Could be worse, eh? We could be speaking ze French Canadien. Sacre Bleu!

Sorry, Angie, not even for mocking purposes. I don't mock people who are holding guns on me.

YoJimbo asks, ``Shouldn't that be aye?''

Maybe in the Atlantic provinces (anyone here from PEI or Nova Scotia?) but in Ontario it's plain old ``eh.'' Prounced with the long-A vowel sound, as in play or say.

And Sonetka, I wonder how many of those collegiate Iowans could name the Canadian Prime Minister, or even three provinces.

> That last little dig about the European view of Americans being too inattentive or arrogant to care about what goes on outside our country was amusing. Like those are the only two possible reasons.

The more likely reason is that we've noticed that whenever Europeans disagree with Americans, the Europeans are likely wrong.

Given that record, we should smile, nod, and ignore them.

Annalucia-in places like the Yukon its aye with a short and soft a. Different coasts I guess. They say it ALOT up there!

The letter came addressed to her mother, but Beverly Coale wasn’t expecting anything from England. She began to fear the writer had an underhanded motive.

"You think, 'Is this really a letter from a guy in England, or is it from a terrorist?'" Coale said.

Tough call.

LOL You can say that again. FOX News over here in the US is still all over this story.

<screed>
I'm a little slow on the draw (being a lowly digitally brownshirted minion of McBushhitler's Greater Amerika) so I was somewhat surprised when I finally started understanding (thanks Guardian) where all the 'intellectual' chattering class scorn that's being heaped upon President Bush and his hated 'Zionist' 'neocon' 'cabal' comes from.

The sixth pillar of the Islamist version of Islam has met the fifth-column of Sorbonne progressivism...And both of them seem to be saying: "You, we can do business with...For now."

It's becoming clearer that this francophilic pandemic of BDS that has swept through The Progressive Masses like an oversized panty at a Tom Jones show, is merely the cognitive result of those 'dirty' Neo-conservatives having once been big 'L' Liberals [way] back when the word Liberal hadn't yet devolved into denoting the ideological bent of some progressive anarcho-syndicalist whiners whose knee-jerk slacker hatred of western achievement was imparted to them by tenured commies busily deconstructing our world in their grotesque idiot-logical death spasm. This mind you whilst the echo-chamber of failure lives in the unprecedentedly comfortable lap of cultural luxury afforded them by that which they profess to hate...You know, back when the word Liberal didn't describe some guilty lost soul pining for their version of peace as conceived by the likes of Stalin's, and Che's, and Pol Pot's, hip revolutionary mystique.

It's damn skippy clear that our progressive betters project their self-loathing upon those Liberal intellectual Jews who dared think for themselves and who had through various moments of epiphany (like when jets crash into skyscraping symbols of cultural success) diverged from the paths laid out for them by the collective's plantation masters. These new conservatives, formerly known as Liberals, rejected the fetid fever swamps of marxixt BS that debased the very meaning of liberalism which had been turned toward the sort of fractious classist culturally suicidal vision we still see the murky dregs of failing across the planet today.

In their angst of socioeconomic self-loathing, the progs view those evil, evil, neocons - who ultimately rejected the entire pantheon of progressive saints and false prophets - as traitors to the cause.

What we're seeing is the deconstructionist Kool-aid crew's manifest fear that their great shape-shifting leftist cat is out of the subliminal bag and smack dab on reality's table for all to see. This great unraveling of the veil is most notably apparent within the U.S. and Australia and those few willing nations with the stones to stand for what is right and prudent in this post 9/11 world we find ourselves.

What seems to be especially vexing to the metrosexual army of moonbats armed to the exposed fangs as they are with their finely honed sensitivities - so much so that they've can't seem to glance at it for long enough to confront it - is the latest batch of mysterious defections by the likes of Zell Miller, Ed Koch, and many other post 9/11 Anti-idiotarians with cojones bigger than an organic pea - including bourgeois 'South Park Republicans' such as myself. We class traitors who have been newly rendered immune to being sneered at, guilt tripped, ridiculed, and/or trolled into silent resignation are further steeled in resolve by watching as the bewitched lemmings of the tempermentally challenged left appease, apologize for/to, and embrace the self-proclaimed enemies of everything Liberal earned by the blood sweat and tears of our societies. Instead of acknowleging the evil arrayed against the collective Liberal us, and instead of confronting that evil with more vigor than Metrosexus Analsphincterus Flagellarium has managed to summon thus far, Millions of liberals choose to project their dissonance upon those of us who were smart enough to have ferreted out the intellectually nourishing wheat from the nihilistic navel gazing chaff to thresh out the means by which these progressive pink-shirts operate.

Can't successfully blather your way into shutting up an opponent? - DOS attack them.

Can't Bull$hit your way into being given what you want through a Democracy which has enjoyed the fruit of a successful 250 year tradition of applying The Rule of Law? - Reject it all and loudly man the barricades whilst re-reading little red books.

Can't stand McBushhitler's signs and bumper stickers cluttering up your pristine Not-In-Your-Back-Yard - Well...Tough McBush $hit!
</screed>

Wow. What monkey fan said

As the NYT stated:

"Some of the letters from the States seemed to bolster the widespread European view that Americans, whether because of inattention or arrogance, do not care much about the world beyond their own borders."

I think "inattention or arrogance" is a false choice - everyone knows that it's really "cretinous obduracy or generic damage through excessive incestuous mating".

The Los Angeles Times actually printed Le Carré's letter as an editorial today...

Many years ago on a skiing trip in a small alpine village i was surprised to see the enlarged goitres of so many of the local population and when i looked in the phone book some 70 percent of the population shared the same surname.
Similar results from villages in the french Alps.
Is this the genetic inbreeding that a poster seems to wants to project on the Americans, who are probably made up from the largest genepool in the history of Mankind!
"inattention or arrogance" means the arrogance of defying the arrogance of the European left.
Those who genuflect to the guardian's views do so at their own peril .
I may support the re election of the American president but as a non american , i would consider it to be dishonest to attempt to interfere in the elections by mailing or telephoning numerous members of the American public to present by views. Indeed perhaps even criminal.

Hell, the NY Times still hasn't figured out that Americans, it turns out, don't much want to be what to do by New Yorkers, either...

Let's hope some of the more zealous of the British correspondents don't do anything silly, that could potentially harm the letter recipients. You can't entirely rule out the extremes some of these people could go to.

Just read monkey fans' piece - well, golly ...

"... great unraveling of the veil is most notably apparent within the U.S. and Australia ..."

I was in Arizona at an overlook in the Navajo Nation and heard some anti-AmeriKKKans angrily cite the depravity of the US towards the Native People (which, of course, certainly did happened).

In busts a spittle-flecked anti-AuSStralian with "kill me first" one-upsmanship - "... that's nothing - you should have seen what we did to the Aborigines ..."

Birds of a feather. "Proud" of their "debasement". "Honest" about their "history". "Understand" their "motivation".

I wonder how many of the people commenting here were/still are liberal democrats voting for President Bush because of who/what agenda would own Kerry's ass should he end in the White House? I am - I disagree with a lot of what GWB specifically stands for but - the unambiguous (pre-emptive is fine) defense of our physical nation and lives of our citizens - jeez, give me a hard one.

The failure of the Guardian's Operation Clark County proves that everyone is being who they are and they are being who they were born to be.

Regards.

Sorry Davo,

I was being sarcastic in my "cretinous ..." post.

I don't want to overstate my proposition here but (here'goes anyway ...)

In one of the stalls in one of the men's room at my college (which had many foreign students, mostly Middle Eastern) was, in addition to the usual, a post from a foreign student - "Why are Americans so sarcastic?"

I don't know - why didn't he know what to write on a lavatory wall? It must be cultural.

"You think, 'Is this really a letter from a guy in England, or is it from a terrorist?'" Coale said."
"Tough call."
Love the humor...Laughing my ass off.

Aussie's As an American, I will say to you what Jericho, said to US....(paraphrasing) Should our election turn Left, remember us for who/whom we were, not what we will become....and much like you, we will come back.

For you see this statement made by Beverly Coale, "American people are too smart to be influenced by people outside of the country." Is NOT the problem.

The problem IS, many Americans are not "smart" enough NOT to be "influenced by people" 'INSIDE' "of the country."

The stupidity never ends.

American people are too smart to be influenced by people outside of the country.,/i>

Republicans are too smart, but Democrats are enthralled by what people say outside of America about America.

The Telegraph loves the reaction: link

The local Bush campain leader is grateful to Guardian.

the betting odds say bush will win.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_article.asp?id=10484&cid=15&cname=Politics
They are probably not wrong - but if you think they are put some money on it!

Or 2dogs should that be... the stupiditynever ends

Check out this link - you characters got a free plug. Well done.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1332041,00.html

Or 2dogs should that be... the stupiditynever ends

Check out this link - you characters got a free plug. Well done.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1332041,00.html

I am a Senior Citizen. During Clinton's
Administration I had an extremely im-
-portant and well paying job. I often took holidays and had more than one
holiday home.

Since President Bush took office, I have
watched my entire life change for the
worse.

I lost my job.

I lost my two sons in the Iraqi War.

I lost my homes.

As a matter of fact I lost virtually everything and became homeless.

Adding insult to injury, when the authorities found me living like an animal, instead of helping me, I was
thrown in to prison.

I will do anything that Senator Kerry wants in order to ensure that a Demo-
-crat is back in the White House come
2005.

BUSH HAS TO GO!

I just thought you and your friends would like to know how one Senior Citizen views the current Bush Administration.

Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

Sincerely,



Saddam Hussein
President of Iraq

Or 2dogs should that be... the stupiditynever ends

Check out this link - you characters got a free plug. Well done.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1332041,00.html

Here, we'd write to the government body in charge of spam-related problems, The Office of Fair Trading, and complain about the Grauniad's incitement to spam. They just formulated an "action plan" - what they've been spending our taxes on - and then they'll do nothing. That's why they hate America.

>>London action plan on spam
12 October 2004
An international action plan to communicate and cooperate on enforcement action to tackle spam has been agreed by 19 bodies from 15 countries attending the London international spam enforcement workshop organised by the OFT and the US Federal Trade Commission.
The London Action Plan aims to develop international links to address spam and spam-related problems. Participating government bodies have made commitments to actions including:

* encouraging communication and coordination between agencies to achieve efficient and effective enforcement
* regular conference calls to discuss: cases, legislative developments, investigative techniques, ways to address obstacles to enforcement, consumer and business education projects
* encouraging dialogue between government agencies and private sector representatives to promote ways to support government agencies in bringing spam cases and pursue their own initiatives to fight spam
OfficeofFairTrading

Jonathan Dear

Good one Yobbo! You had me right to the end

Oh, Tim, your invective is just soooo sharp, I'm sure The Guardian is bleeding from the gut after you, ah, poked your tongue out at them.

Mad Monkey

Wow, you're just so talented. Why, it took me whole minutes to understand how you used so many words to paraphrase GWB's 'if you're not with us you're against us' mantra.
Of course, the other reason is to bitterly attempt to justify your GWB preference- to whit 'Yes I'm voting Bush but I'm not dumb you know!'

Re foreigner interference:

You Americans have a well deserved reputation for generosity which tempts me to ask you a favour. Annalucia suggested that some of you might like to write back to Lady Antonia Fraser, Richard Dawkins, John LeCarre, etc. This is a splendid idea. I am sure they would be delighted to hear from you.

However, not all we Britons like this bunch of posturing tossers very much. You’ve now had a small sample of what they and their kind are dishing out to the rest of us on a daily basis. And many of us are pretty cheesed off with it all, I can tell you. We’d like it to stop.

The favour: I don’t suppose you could arrange for the replies to be made by special delivery, could you? Say by attaching them to the tail fins of a few of your surplus cruise missiles? I’m sure you must have some. It would be very kind of you. While you’re at it, you could drop a line to the BBC too. There’s no need to go nuclear though. We don’t want to wake the neighbours.

You could look on it as another round of overseas aid to a beleaguered Britain. You should know, of course, some of us are very grateful indeed to you for pulling us out of the ditch in times past. We are the same ones who cringe with embarrassment when our fellow countrymen conduct themselves a la Fraser, Dawkins and LeCarre.

One good thing: When I first heard about this stunt I knew what the American response would be. I must say you haven’t disappointed me. Good for you.

Monkey Fan, I think you make some excellent points. First class spleen-vent, that. And very well expressed. I feel pretty much the same way myself.

:) (Closed-mouth version. It’s the teeth, you know. Courtesy of a health-care system designed by ‘thinkers’ of the calibre of… Well, I’ll let you guess.)

Best wishes to you all.

James, my sympathies are with you and your fellow rational Brits. May you win your nation back.

The cruise missiles may take a bit of work, though. For some reason, the Department of Defense keeps a close watch on that sort of ordnance.

You're mostly a bunch of cunts. You deserve Bush.

OOOH, Monkey Boy, say it again! OOH, you're so big and smart and brainy and all that. OOH, I'm going to vote for GWB, just for you lover.

You're mostly a bunch of cunts. You deserve Bush.

No, you got it wrong. The people who deserve Bush the most are lefty losers who keep whining about him. Congrats, you'll get him for another 4 years!

Tee Hee. I never had any idea how easy it was to get a rise out of America. Come on guys, let's be honest hear. You are saying to us Brits, "stay out of our politics". How about you guys stay out of other countries politics. Afganistan, Israel, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea etc. You are not the world police, and we Brits will comment/involve ourselves in your politics, for as long as you keep asking us to stand by your side through the rough times. Without Britain, America would not need a Foreign policy, because no othe country would want anything to do with you.

I love your country, but you need to be a little more realistic on how the big wide world works.

Dominic, we Americans know how the real world works. We are expected to pay for everything and come to everybody's aid in the entire world when they want help and then get spit in the face by clueless people like you. Put your money where your mouth is and stand on your own two feet then. If you aren't leaning on us for money then you are pandering to the EU. Who's next? Al Queda?

Oh Fort Campbell. I am lost for words. Please explain how we lean on you for money, and also how we pander to the EU. Your examples will be the proof as to whether you really do know the outside world. My main point was that I think it a bit rich for Americans to say we shouldn't have a point of view on your elections. Daily I read articles on CNN and CBS webs, that carry Americas points of view on politics in other countries.

Uhhh... Dominic--the CBS website carries the point of view of about 30 square blocks of Manhattan. Keep trying.

Not according to this 'CBS Correspondent List'

They're from all over the place. You guys keep posting comments with absolutely no content or fact behind them, and I'll keep shooting them down.

Dominic,

“Tee Hee...get a rise out of America.” - So it was a joke all along? On the other hand, “we Brits will…involve ourselves in your politics” - So it’s NOT a joke? Tweedledum Tweedledee. No. I don’t get it.

“…no othe country would want anything to do with you” - I’m not sure the Aussies would be too inclined to slavishly follow our lead if we ducked out.

“stay out of other countries politics. Afganistan…Iraq” - Yes, I agree the Yanks are involving themselves there a little, much as they did in Nazi Germany and Japan in 1945. The nerve!

“I love your country”. Hmmmm - especially as you then follow on by patronising its citizens.

“…for Americans to say we shouldn't have a point of view on your elections” – I don’t recall them saying that.

As for them knowing the detailed comings and goings in the EU, why should they, they have plenty of soap operas of their own to watch whenever they’ve got nothing better else to do?

“…articles on CNN and CBS webs, that carry Americas points of view on politics in other countries” – So they do look out the window. The BBC is so much better, of course.

Dominic, I think you’re a wind-up merchant, whether you intend to be or not.

You naughty fellow.

In his list of countries the US has intervened in - Afganistan, Israel, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea - why did my compatriot Dominic include Israel?

I'm going to regret asking that, aren't I?

James,

I would not say I am a wind-up merchant, I just have a certain writing style.

What did the Guardian actually do? They asked people to write a point of view. That's all. There is a difference between getting involved and offering an opinion. I just think that the reaction Operation Clark County got was overboard.

I do love America and visit regularly. It just that when a lot of the writers received replies such as "KEEP YOUR FUCKIN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SHIT" I find it difficult to understand that reaction.

And yes. The BBC is much better :-)

Martin,

I think sometimes the middle east process would work better with America standing back a bit from the pro-israel stance. There are other more 'neutral' countries that could act as a better 'go between'. I always prefer the saying, "If you fail, try again a couple of times. Then let somebody else have a go."

I'm a regular Guardian reader (draw your own conclusions, if you wish). As soon as I read about their Operation Clark County, I thought it was ill-conceived and likely to do little good.

However my main question here is, where is the harm? Readers that want to communicate with voters are urged to be courteous and polite. From the actual examples discussed on the Cleveland Plain Dealer site they seem to be both. People who want to get involved have to write, to only one voter, and physically post an actual letter rather than email. I may lead an unexciting life but to receive a real letter from somewhere far away is never unwelcome.

As to the charge of influencing the outcome of a foreign election - I think people are under-estimating the commonsense of the people of Clark County and over-estimating the persuasiveness of Guardian readers. The Ohioans may be intrigued but I don't think they'll be swayed one way or another.

The tactics that many blogs seem to be advocating of swamping the Guardian journalists and editorial staff with spam and emails seems over the top and small minded. I can understand the sentiment behind "Don't Thread On Us" but surely it doesn't extend to "Don't Talk to Us" too?

Dominic seems to have a gift for missing the point. The current locations, or for that matter, original hometowns of CBS correspondents are quite irrelevant to the fact that they uniformly reflect liberal monoculture.

I'd also point out that the Guardian, of course, cherry-picked the American responses to contrast the 'reasonable' Guardianistas with the pro-Bush Neanderthals. I've seen quite a few American replies that showed more wit than the Guardian has ever published; but that, of course, would never do, as all Brits know that Americans don't get irony.

Bruce. Are you're saying that the USA's liberal monoculture all live in about 30 square blocks of Manhatten. That is something I have trouble believing.

Chaps,

I’ll be brief because I have a few days off to do some decorating. I’m a little behind and the wife’s due back shortly. She’s got the makings of a superb Nazi and I’d like to avoid a run-in with her. OK.

Read what Dawkins said about President Bush. I can only imagine if I were an American and some Brit said that about my President, given our joint history, I’d be inclined to hit back whether I vote for President Bush or not. Dawkins was very rude.

Otherwise, pace.

Y'know, expressing an opinion is all right. Indeed, most Americans accept that as a fact of life, given our freedom of speech (although there are places in the world not so fortunate).

No, the problem here is a tad more complicated.

It's not that the Guardian is expressing an opinion. It's not that the Guardian is asking people to express their opinions. Please note that most protests in other parts of the world tend to get a yawn.

No matter how polite, no matter how courteous, these letters are unsolicited opinions, asking Americans to take action in a certain way on a decision that most Americans consider personal.

In short, unasked for opinions are being shoved in American faces. This is considered rude behavior in most parts of the USA. I can't say about other parts of the world, although Australia is clearly civilized as well. I find it especially galling in the light of the "Ugly American" legend.

Perhaps this is just the behavior of a certain type of person, like, oh, maybe leftwingers? Instead of a national trait, I mean.

A couple of Brits here seem to be missing something essential:

It's one thing for someone from another country to have a point of view and to express an opinion, in a newspaper or a forum such as this one. That's fine, that's great;of course it is. In fact, for the past century, the US has assisted other countries just so that this situation can exist for them. The comment "you'd all be speaking German" should not go unnoticed by any Briton; whether you like it or not, it's true.

But what the Guardian advocated, and what readers did, is for one individual from another country to condescendingly "adopt" an American individual, to invade his private home UNASKED through a physical piece of mail and tell that person how he or she should vote. It's the equivalent to collaring someone on his doorstep and giving unwanted advice.

If Americans had done this to the Afghans, each American "adopting" an Afghan and telling him how to vote, Britain and other countries would be screaming until their eyes bled.

Dominic:

hy-per-bo-le, n. 1. Obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2. An extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as in "to wait an eternity."

Wonder where you were while we almost stood alone for 2 years facing the the might of the germans as you watched millions die

Trying to mind our own business, Sean, not swooping in like the hated superpower we are and letting other countries fight their own battles like a lot of people yell at us to do nowadays.

We should have done it sooner for you guys, oh yes, but we shouldn't do it at all for the Iraqis or the Afghans?

Damned when we do, damned when we don't...and people wonder why we're unilateral.

Dominic enscribeth:

I think sometimes the middle east process would work better with America standing back a bit from the pro-israel stance. There are other more 'neutral' countries that could act as a better 'go between'. I always prefer the saying, "If you fail, try again a couple of times. Then let somebody else have a go."

Isn't it a bit of an over-reaction comparing receiving a letter to a home invasion? And as for getting mail unasked for most mail these days seems to be of that nature. A handwritten expression of interest in politics may be worthy of more consideration than double-glazing offers or pizza menus.

I won't re-hash all of the arguements about American influence in foreign power struggles. Some, as suellen points out, have directly benefitted Europeans in the last century. Other engagements have been less influenced by higher motives.

Given the choice, I think the inhabitants of most countries would prefer to receive a piece of British well-meaning, probably left-leaning, liberal political advice (which you're free to re-cycle immediately) rather than the 1st Airborne.

Oh "Sean," stick it. You sound like the typical highschool fake-name-using loser whose knowledge of history was gained mostly from watching your older brothers play "Battleship."

Darragh: yeah, all those people languishing in Saddam's prisons would definitely have preferred a friendly letter from a dopey British leftwinger than being freed by those nasssty bomber-flying Americans. What a stupid analogy you give.

YoU sound like the tipcal yank whos's first words are stick IT, **** you or USA! USA!

Oh please

andrea - do you think the state of Iraq is in better shape now or 18 months ago? Are the Iraqis happy to have the Americans on their soil? Are the Iraqis in Abu Graib langiushing in better conditions? Are ordinary Iraqis safer? Are you safer? The Americans military seem to be puzzled by the lack of gratitude on the ground - it's not a difficult puzzle to solve.

Andrea,

I have not asked anybody here to accept or agree with my opinions. So whether it matters to anybody or not, I don't care.

Like many others on here, I am just giving an opinion. Try giving us your opinion on the subject at hand, rather than just slate the previous post.

If you read a lot of different news sources, instead of the Grauniad, Darragh, you could at least arguably answer "yes" to all those questions. I have never, for instance, heard anyone in the American military expressing puzzlement about the Iraqi people's lack of gratitude. Where do you GET this stuff? (I know, I know, the Guardian!)

but it's AMERICANS who can't see the big picture?

How about usa today.. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm

"But while they acknowledge benefits from dumping Saddam a year ago, Iraqis no longer see the presence of the American-led military as a plus. Asked whether they view the U.S.-led coalition as "liberators" or "occupiers," 71% of all respondents say "occupiers."

Thats an american artical

"Isn't it a bit of an over-reaction comparing receiving a letter to a home invasion? And as for getting mail unasked for most mail these days seems to be of that nature. A handwritten expression of interest in politics may be worthy of more consideration than double-glazing offers or pizza menus.

.......

Given the choice, I think the inhabitants of most countries would prefer to receive a piece of British well-meaning, probably left-leaning, liberal political advice (which you're free to re-cycle immediately) rather than the 1st Airborne. "

Ahem.

First, darragh, the funny thing is, we Yanks do consider the mailbox part of our home. Indeed, the Post Office treats mail as personal; as an example, opening someone else's mailbox is a Federal offense (although the FBI does not hang around the block, waiting to swoop down and nab an offender). It's been that way for a long time. Some people take it seriously, some don't. I can't say if this is true in other countries, but it is sure how I was raised.

Second, we get enough unsolicited mail as it is, political and non-political. Trust me, "spam by snail mail" is an issue. Granted, it's on the list of minor irritation, but get enough, and it can be a problem.

Third, please note my my earlier post.

Fourth, it's highly unlikely that the US military will be inserted into Clark County. That was a cheap shot at US foreign policy, and clearly shows your bias....which leads me to wonder if your post is an example of "... well-meaning, probably left-leaning, liberal political advice.

Finally, as a point of order, there is no "1st Airborne" in the US Army (Marines usually don't jump out of airplanes). There is the 101st Airborne. If you are confused, go here.

Oh,I see, darragh -- you're one of those idiots who think that Iraq was better off under Saddam. From now on your comments will be ignored.

Sean: USAToday? You actually send me to some USAToday poll and think your comments here should be respected?

Dominic: ok. My opinion is you're just another Jewhating anti-Israel pro-Palestinian creep. Hey, you asked!

some you the yank comments are class, especially comments like -
"KEEP YOUR FUCKIN' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH SHIT!
PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH! "

and the fact they the yanks don't like other countries meddling with the way they do things....what! wake up and smell the coffee you yanky twats - all you lot ever do is meddle and poke your nose in other countries business...

Andrea
It was simply to highlight that there is more much more then a british newspaper reporting whats on the ground in Iraq. you are simply in denial if you really believe that the vast majority of the people of iraq want the US/UK there now. Did it pass your mind that we have troops there to? What you could well have is another vietnam on your hands. The US or the UK goverements had no idea how hard it would be on the ground after they ousted saddam. Where's the wmds? it's why they went, lets not pretend that bush or blair care a jot about the people of iraq. One word; Rowanda. Not really in our interest to get involved, just poor people no assets let them meet their fate. But we have to go to war with Iraq because they have WMD's

Well just how true did that turn out to be? So what bull do they come out with ? We did it for the people of iraq (that mainly want us to leave) Lets see us both go to korea that have WMD's and have said not to mess with them. To hard a target that. What you want is a nice pr job for the Amearican people. A name and a face the hole world knows. The worlds not a safer place, Iraq looks to be taken up fundamenatlism when it was actually a secular country before. Way to go US/UK

Andrea you are being abusive, try if you can to actually focus on the point at hand rather then mindless insults if you're able.

Whatever our disagreements about the success (or otherwise) or US military action in Iraq, I doubt if it will be the deciding factor to the people of Clark County (anyone mind if I return to the point?)

Nor will a letter from a Guardian reader in the UK. It is simply an act of reaching out and writing to another person. However misguided or ineffectual it may turn out to be I think the over reaction demonstated on the web (and in the posts above) is extreme (and slightly comical) . Could the source of this anger honestly be 1776? What, really?

Well i do think the Gurdian had some cheek to be honest. They of course did it for a reaction, which is excatly what they got.

I have to say that i was turning in my grave when i heard that you Americans started having a go at the the French and changing the name of French fries to freedom fries, when they helped you defeat me in your battle for independence. If it wasn't for the French you'd all be speaking English now and be at a healthy weight..

Oh actually i see now why you’re so upset with them

Andrea,

Thank you for your comments. Unfortunately you are wrong again. I am neither Pro or Anti Jewish nor Pro or Anti Palistine. I'm just a guy who looks at the middle east and thinks things could be handled better.

We gave you a Turkey & provided you with a beautiful land, you gave us flu, small pox country music, rap and reservations.

Iraq, Vietnam and Ameraica itself is not the first place you've messed up

Signed

pokahantis

Dominic, thank you for your voice of reason in this utter madness.
I came across this site yesterday and was genuinely astonished and appalled at some of the comments inciting racial hatred against Muslims. I am amazed that such extreme fundamentalism is born in America, 'Land of the Free'. Frankly, you should be ashamed of your deeply rooted prejudices and of yourselves.
Sarah (London)

Hi sarah and thanks for your input.

I was in the uk last year, and met up with a couple from manchester called jack and vera duckworth. Do you know them at all?

Hi Jim,

Yes, bless Jack and Vera. Still fighting after all these years. Did you know that Jack dressed in drag recently to take part in the women's bowling competition?

Sarah

yes, and we should have won that game of bowls! sigh...

Yeah thats a damn shame he was a stand up guy was jack. Whats the bowls you speak it of, is it good with freedom fries?

Crown Green Bowling, Jim. More baked jacket potato that freedom fries really.
Hayley - the moral victory was yours.

Vote Bush!

Ha what an idiot!!

Osma's left us with hhis addy. It wont be long now before we have him!!

I'm voting kerry after what bin laden said

oh bore off, Osama

freedon fries..??? nowt wrong with a bit of hotpot I say...don't want any of that poncy foreign muck.

Thank you for compliment Sarah. It is nice to hear that somebody understands my point. I will not bore you with talk of corry. Fancy dinner sometime? Male/29/Berkshire.

domonic - how can you be unfaithful to me..??

plus, don't lie about your age - you're 32!

This Tim Blair chap's in Australia right? So he's asleep right now. Wouldn't it be nice if by the time he wakes up in the morning all the nasty 'Brits have yellow teeth', 'Americans are stoopid', 'all Muslims are evil terrorists' lines of banter had been replaced with the innocent, harmless discussion of Jack Duckworth and bowling? And maybe the occasional 'Vote Bush'. If you must. And because there's probably no stopping you now anyway.
Oh yes. Feel the love. Reject the hate. Everyone's happy. (Well I feel a bit better anyway).

yes, maybe I should sell the rights of corry to the us..??? and they'll become nice and friendly like the brits!!

yeeha...I've struck gold...

now, gimme that phone..!

that's a genius idea Mr Producer and I hope you're awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for it.

Darn you all, I'm trying to leave work. Now I'm contemplating what Dominic looks like...

he's ok....!

al;l will be revealed tomorrow - if i remember!

OK I have read the thread and have something to say.

A lot has been said about the USA comming to the UK's aid in WWII, what has not been mentioned is 2 very large FACTS.

1) Before the USA came in to the war they did give us aid via the "Lend Lease Agreement". Basicly this cost the UK its entire gold reseave. I would say this is profiteering.

2) Admittedly the USA adventually did enter the war but it took a attack on their own soil (Pearl Harbour 7/12/43) for that to happen.

So my reply would be yes we will help you, we will reposition our troops to where you have f**k*d up but remember that "Lend Lease Agreement"

I'm outraged!

RD, outraged about what, there has been a lot of comments here

To Brit and Another Brit:

One reason why the America Firsters were so influential before WW2 is that the British government of David Lloyd George had lied to the American people during WW1, claiming that those nasty old Huns had committed atrocious war crimes against women and children in Belgium. The Germans did act like pricks in WW1, but this fabrication went beyond the pale. After that, most Americans were extremely reluctant to become involved in European affairs. The US entered WW2 only when it was in our nation's best interests.

As for me, I don't understand, nor approve of, endless British sneering at Americans. First our president is treated shabbily by the British press and public during a state visit, amid whining that the security arrangements cost 1.5 million quid. (The US contributes $150 billion to NATO alone annually, a huge contribution even for a large, rich nation.)

Next, we hear an endless barrage of insults from the British, on both the left and the right, about how we've fucked up the war. If memory serves, Iraq (and Palestine and Pakistan and the Sudan) were all British creations. What is Britain going to do, now, to help out in these terrible regions? That's what counts.

Then, endless complaints that those Americans love the poodle Tony Blair, but we British can't stand W, so we've got the short end of the stick by joining the Coalition. I wonder: How is it detrimental to the British to have a PM who is widely admired in America? What Americans think still counts in the world.

And now, we have a flagrant, pathetic attempt by British lefties to interfere in an American election.

Nations don't have friends, they have interests. How it's in Britain's best interests for its citizens to insult and antagonize Americans constantly is beyond me.

Hey Ron -you half-whit:

That should be "to wit" , but I care not a whit

I love america, they play rounders there you know....grown men playing a little girls game..whatever next?

Well okay, time to close another comment thread because of halfwitted trolls and twits. By the way, the poor grammar and non-existant reasoning skills displayed by the British trolls on this thread don't say anything good about the state of education in the UK.