[Yes I am still here. Actual moving out will be Wednesday or Thursday, due to the lack of availability of persons with the requisite upper body strength to help me drag certain large items into a U-haul before then.]
Internet snobbery and cliquishness is on full-color display over at Bill's Content. The "Peoria Pundit" is much exercised over the advent of America Online's new blogging utility for its members. "this will not raise the level of social discourse in the blogosphere" he admonishes. Further down he declares that
Personally, I plan to use IP banning to block all AOL customers. If I lose regulars, fine. That should be another incentive to switch to a real ISP.
Good lord, get the smelling salts!
Ah, there is nothing like I like better than the smell of a The "'Real Internet' Versus Those Primitive AOLers" conflict in the morning. It is incidents like these that convince me that for Americans, the one central formative experience that binds us all together is high school, and that many of us never really leave those hallowed halls. For them there will always be the Cliques: the Valedictorian/Student Government clique (the so-called "elite" bloggers), the nerds (the techie bloggers), the jocks (the "right wing" bloggers), the drama club (the "left wing" bloggers), the Odd Men Out -- which could either be the Cool Kids or the Outcasts, sometimes both at once -- all those bloggers who refuse, or say they refuse, to consider themselves part of a "group," and the Special Ed kids (whose mantle used to be worn by Live Journal users, but this will now obviously be passed to the new AOL bloggers). And of course there are the Popular Kids, who cull the best and the brightest from the the other groups and whose dicta rule the school. Bill obviously thinks he is one of the blogosphere's arbiters of status; he has the "we can't let just anyone into the group" shtick down pat.
PS: Bill's trackback is broken.
(Via a small victory.)
Posted by Andrea Harris at July 20, 2003 11:50 AMWhat a freakin' idiot. I have a real ISP (ever snce I swithced to DSL), but I have kept my AOL email (for now). Funny, I don't feel any smarter. Maybe I should try staying at a Holiday Inn Express?
Posted by: John McCrarey at July 20, 2003 at 12:18 PMMaybe I should try staying at a Holiday Inn Express?
I did that, and I STILL have my AOL account. Maybe we're smarter than little Billy.
Posted by: Gary Utter at July 20, 2003 at 01:16 PMI don't get the concept of being angry at other people because they use ISP's you don't like. This is like being angry because your neighbor uses the wrong brand of margarine.
Posted by: Steve H. at July 20, 2003 at 03:21 PMSteve H:
You use margarine?! So, you are one of those. I can't believe they allow you on the Internet! It was built by and for people who only use real butter, not that imatation stuff. Someone should block your IP address before you cause permanent damage to all us enlighted butter eaters.....
Posted by: John McCrarey at July 20, 2003 at 05:06 PMHey, if you are going to quote me, do it in context.
1. The fact the AOL is not a real ISP is accurate, in that its content is not a part of the Internet. True, users can open IE or Netscape while logged on and surf the same Internet the rest of us to.
2. I stand my my assertion that "this will not raise the level of social discourse in the Blogosphere." Most AOL users use it because they lack need the hand holding AOL provides. Those who find they don't need the handholding will migrate off to ISP's that provide better service with less nanny-like rules.
3. I am not angry at AOLers. I am angry at AOL. Big difference.
4. Because AOL is the first experience many have with the Internet, it tends to attract those new users, immature users who tend to become trolls who engage is all sorts of rude and obnoxious behavior in chatrooms, USENET, BBS's and blog comments. Trolls use regular ISP's, I know. But the percentage is higher for AOL, I am sure.
5. What I actually wrote (in my second post on this matter) was that while I am sure may AOL Journals will be fine pieces of work, anyone serious about it will use Blogger and eventually will switch to their own hosted space and use pMachine of MT. Perhaps the next InstaPundit will come from the world of AOL Journals. That wouldn't bother me a bit.
6. This is the gist of my argument: As soon as AOL starts linking to AOL Journals on AOL content pages, AOLers who never heard of blogs or blogging will enter the Blogosphere. WHile most of these people are not and never will be trolls, many of them will be trolls, simply because the ratio of trolls to normal people is higher for AOL than other ISPs. Call this elitism, snobbery or anything you like if it makes you feel more democratic. I was there when AOL membership skyrocketed. I saw what happened to USENET and chatrooms and my e-mail inbox.
Posted by: Bill Dennis at July 20, 2003 at 05:52 PMHey, Bill? What definition of "in context" are you using? Not one that I have ever heard. I think what you really mean is "quote me so that I look good." Sorry, no can do.
Now, to your points:
1. Again, you seem to be using a definition of a well-known phrase that is not generally used elsewhere, at least not on this planet. AFAIK, "ISP" means "Internet Service Provider." People with AOL log on, and they are connected to the internet just like everyone else. The AOL-only content is kind of like those extra cable teevee movie channels. AOL users actually get more content than "real internet" users. Sure, maybe it's just kiddy stuff, but they aren't chained to using it. I never did when I had an AOL account; I always opened Netscape or something right away.
As for "hand-holding" -- oh, sneer, sneer. Give me a break, Heather.
3. What a waste of anger.
4. So what? Oh -- I forgot; we have to keep the Real Internet pure! Yawn.
5. You did? Funny, all's I saw was a diatribe against AOL users and how they will "bring down" the internet. Why, the next thing you know, there will be hundreds and hundreds of porno sites! Dogs and cats, living together! Anyway, I see no mention of MT or Pmachine on your post, only a patronizing statement on how they can just use Blogger. So instead of using software their own ISP provides, they should use slow, overloaded Blogspot, until they somehow are considered worthy of graduating to the exalted level of a "real blogging software" user?
6. So what? What will they do, blow up the internet? Cause people to have nervous breakdowns? I am not sure what your problem is with this, Chicken Little. And that "I was there, on Usenet..." ROTFL, I'll bet you were. "Black September" my ass. Yeah, the worst thing that ever happened after September 11th was that people started troll-fights on Usenet.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 20, 2003 at 09:02 PMFirst off: I concede defeat. I will NOT ban all AOL users from my site. I want people to visit my site. Banning AOLers would be silly. I'll just ban trolls as they appear -- whether they are AOLers or not.
Now ...
1. Apparently we do have different definitions. I mean "real ISP" to mean "an ISP that doesn't provide lousy service, upload new programing to your computer without your permission, require the use of buggy software than messes up your computer, change double the rate other ISP's charge for providing content customers can get for free elsewhere."
2. "Handholding" is exactly what makes AOL popular with novices. AOL makes all the decisions about what content to see, what settings to use. For many this is a GOOD thing. I'm not being judgmental. When I first used the Internet, I needed that handholding. After six months, I had it figured out for the most part. I still need to figure out how to get trackbacks to work.
3. Believe me, I am more angry at all this crap being spread today than I am about AOL.
4. Were did I say AOLers should keep out of the Blogosphere? AOL Wants to offer blogs? More power to them. AOLers want to cruise the Blogosphere? Great! Please come to Peoria Pundit! I can use the hits. I'm just offering fair warning that when AOLers leap into the Blogosphere, they will bring a disproportionate number of trolls with them.
5. [sarcasm mode on] You know what? You just insulted Blogger users, you elitist a**hole. [sarcasm mode off]
6. Ummm.. How young are you? I am talking about the mid 1990s when AOL membership jumped so much, AOL was having trouble with busy signals. Why bring Sept. 11 into this meaningless argument?
Posted by: Bill Dennis at July 20, 2003 at 10:46 PM1. AOL isn't the only service that is crappy. But -- thir crappy service and buggy software was not the point of your post, and I don't see how it makes them any less "real" of an ISP than any other.
2. You aren't everyone, and you seem to disparage handholding.
3. Again, such a lot of wasted anger.
4. Your entire attitude is one of "Ew! They're letting the riff-raff in!" QED.
5. Why no -- I insulted Blogspot, which was notoriously slow and buggy, though recently they seem to have improved the service somewhat. I still have trouble loading Blogspot sites at certain hours. And I did not say, as you did, that Blogspot users were "immature" and "needed handholding."
6. I am forty. I was actually referring to a comment to your post; actually, I seem to have mistaken their reference. I do remember the problems AOL had with busy signals, as they were inundated with more new users than they anticipated.
In any case, as much as you try to insist otherwise, your post focused on the users of AOL's service, not the company itself. Perhaps you might want to re-read your post. If you meant to criticize the actual company, there are many ways you could have done so without even mentioning the users. There is actually no reason to think that there is anything inherent to America Online's service that attracts trolls and immature users any more than any other large, nationwide content provider, except for the fact that they are still around, are conglomerate, are in fact global. But if you must know it has been my experience that most of my trolls are college students (or -- I wouldn't be surprised -- instructors) using accounts provided by their universities. I have actually had only one or two trolls who use AOL.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at July 20, 2003 at 11:30 PMLook. I still think my criticism focuses on AOL and that small minority of AOL users who are trolls.
But apparently, I have offended some folks and for that I am sorry.
But, some of the criticism leveled at ME was way over the top.
Posted by: Bill Dennis at July 21, 2003 at 09:49 AMPersonally, I look forward to all the AOL users visiting my site. I consider it an honor that they'd make the effort to visit during the 45 minutes they're logged-on before the network cuts off their connection (okay, it's 5 year old humor, but it's something to lighten the atmosphere). :)
Posted by: Ricky at July 21, 2003 at 12:36 PMThe only question I have is this: can I somehow Javascript or XHTML every stinking AOL user to bequeath me some minor, unnoticable amount of money (say, a nickel?) for looking at my lame-ass tripe? If I can't -- well, they're just another pair of eyeballs. Trolls be damned -- they only stick around if you feed them, and I don't.
Posted by: Scott Chaffin at July 21, 2003 at 10:50 PMI can assure Bill that there are plenty of AOL users who do not require hand-holding. I stick with AOL because, believe it or not, they have the most reliable service of the nationwide ISP's here in Hooterville. I tried two others (MSN and AT&T Worldnet), and stuck with AOL because I got consistently higher connection speeds and fewer disconnects, and I had fewer issues with e-mail. Even though I will be moving to a place with broadband, I will likely keep my AOL account, because it is nice to be able to connect when one is on vacation, 3000 miles from home.
I don't use the nerfed AOL browser; once I connect, I minimize that window, and open up Outlook Express and IE6. (Since I have my own domain, I have no problems using Outlook to check my e-mail.)
As far as the comments on trolls, I have had few brushes with them. However, not a single one of them used AOL. AOL is likely to have a lower proportion of trolls, because a lot of the people who are uncomfortable with computers are older people (the 55+ crowd), who as a whole are less likely to act childish.
Posted by: timekeeper at July 22, 2003 at 08:51 AM