Concerning the recent bombings in Morocco, I have been reading here and there (most recently in the comments to this post) some expressions of astonishment that Belgian interests were apparently among those targeted, since Belgium is currently pursuing efforts to set up some sort of international kangaroo court with which to try upstart Americans "war criminals" like General Franks. Of course this astonishment has a sarcastic edge; I don't think that many people, at least on the pro-war-against-terrorists side, are really surprised that Al Qaeda & Co. are not telegraphing their attacks according to who is currently attempting to appease them, or whatever it is the Belgian contingent thinks it is doing with its "antiwar" posturing. At the risk of repeating myself, these terrorists are Arab supremacists, and they care not a whit for the good opinions and peace offerings of Western infidels. If such antics momentarily give their cause a boost by diverting American/allied efforts against them they are fine with that, but it makes no difference to them in the long run, because as far as the terrorists are concerned we are all worm food. And they just might put their "appeasers" up against the wall first, just on general principles. No one, even evil sons of nazis, likes people who betray their own.
This isn't deep wisdom: I figured all that out about five minutes after the World Trade Center was attacked. I'm not going to make any claim to being a Big Brain either: I garnered my deep wisdom by sitting on my ass reading mostly junk like science fiction and fantasy, watching crap movies on tv, and occasionally talking to my fellow clueless humans. I am not particularly well-traveled: I've been to Europe exactly once, over twenty years ago. I learned that they sure do love soppy pop music there, and everything is uphill except in the Netherlands. I've been to college -- in the parlance, I have "some college" education. I may never finish, because there is one thing I now know and that is that you don't go to college to get educated. Maybe that is why all these eggheads with their PhDs in PoliSci and Sociology are so solid between the ears about this little Islamofascist problem: they actually thought they were learning something while they were being filled up with the latest kewl theories. Then again, I could be wrong. Maybe all the terrorists want is a hug.
Posted by Andrea Harris at May 17, 2003 12:55 PMI have "some college" education. I may never finish, because there is one thing I now know and that is that you don't go to college to get educated.
You are SO ON about that! Am seriously considering encouraging my daughter to go to a TRADE school rather than college...my own head was so full of mush, that it took marrying my really smart hubby and a few years of hard knocks to get it straight...wish I could go laugh in my old professors faces...
Posted by: Sharon Ferguson at May 17, 2003 at 09:33 PMUnless your daughter really is interested in "knowledge for its own sake" (ie, studying theory and writing research papers), then there is no reason for her to go to college, unless she really must do the whole going-away-to-college-to-live-in-a-dorm social thing, or if she is going into one of the sciences, or medical school, for which, of course, a university path is mandatory.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 17, 2003 at 10:07 PMYou've got to be kidding me. In order to be considered for higher paying jobs that don't include menial labor, etc., then you pretty much need a college degree or some sort of specialized education and training (engineering/computer degrees). College is a key path to higher paying employment and a higher quality of life. Some jobs won't even consider people without a degree.
Posted by: lindenen at May 18, 2003 at 03:31 AMThe only "high-paying jobs" out there aren't managerial positions. Whether you like it or not, we still need people to do those "menial" jobs, and not all of them pay minimum wage. And not everyone is going into the managerial or professional (doctor/lawyer/engineer) track. There are plenty of kids in college who don't really belong there -- girls who really want to get married and be mothers, guys who would rather be mechanics or work with their hands in some other area -- but they have all become sucked into our country's insistence that you're doomed to destitution if you don't have that piece of paper.
Besides, I include in "trade schools" those many small institutes that have sprung up that focus on things like computer networking, repair, and such. You don't need a degree in Computer Science for things like that anymore. I have a friend who went to one of those schools; he manages a computer store today. I bought my computer from him.
Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 18, 2003 at 09:59 AMEver seen the tables of wage rates for the construction trade that get shoved into all government building projects under the Davis-Bacon Act. That ain't chump change that those tradesmen are getting.
Posted by: MommaBear at May 18, 2003 at 03:30 PMAgreed. I really hate the assumption in high school that if you've got a shred of intelligence you're going to go to college after you graduate whether you have an idea of what you want to do with it or not; because gosh, where would guidance counselors be if swarms of seniors didn't need help choosing which college they went to?
I wish that college was treated more like the very expensive option that it is. The financial end of it is never explained as fully as it should be; you always go to college! You get grants and scholarships and loans and workstudies and your parents pay the rest, of course. And they don't bother mentioning the reality that you're not guaranteed to be making any more money when you get out than someone who's been working their way up through the workforce for those four or five years--you're only guaranteed to have more debt.
Most of the people I graduated high school with have one year to go before they're "professionals"--with English and Art History degrees.
I'm not saying colleges are wrong for everyone, but they're certainly not the panacea everyone seems to make them out to be.
Posted by: Erica at May 18, 2003 at 04:05 PM(That said, I really want to go back to college now that I have an idea of what I want to do...)
Posted by: Erica at May 18, 2003 at 04:07 PMI submit to those of you who think college is the only way to go : my husband is an engineer...who recieved only two years of training, but training under one of the best schools in the country for instrumentation design, a HIGHLY marketable career. The school he went to? Texas State Technical Institute, which has since been 'upgraded' to College...and it was a trade school established by Texas A&M.
Now, the two year degree will only take him so far...and fulfilling another two years for a four yr degree will earn him a 'full-fledged' engineer title...and definitely more money, but the good man makes excellent money as it is, and we have been in the engineering industry (I have dabbled in the periphery of it myself) long enough to understand that Experience often trumps education. All the theory in the world will not help him determine the best instrumentaion for a petrochemical plant that is the only major jobs center for an area, ie St. Croix, Virgin Islands, one of the projects he is in command of.
THAT is where trade school, if you are smart and selective about where and what you do, will get you.
In contrast, I have a four year degree in anthropology. I know lots and lots about cultures and digging up bones and evolutionary theory, but very little of it has garnered me a job. One reason is because I am in the worst area of the country to do archaeological work. Secondly, archaeology largely gets jobs through government contracts, and for all the other things people want the government to spend money on, archaeological digs are the LAST things on peoples priority list. Thirdly, there's no real practical application of archaeological techniques to other occupations, so essentially I am screwed. I pursued a highminded career, with the hopes of capitalizing on it, and am left with reams of books and theories and such, whilst my husband with a trade school education is bringing home the bacon so I can sit home and play with writing blogs!!!
Posted by: Sharon Ferguson at May 18, 2003 at 05:00 PMOne of the greatest barriers to social mobility in this country is the assumption that you must have a college degree in order to qualify for certain jobs. In 70% of these cases, there is no logical reason for this requirement--it is merely a convenient screening vehicle to avoid looking at some many resumes and considering so many candidates. Corporations that truly want to demonstrate "social responsibility" should consider broadening their recruiting net.
Of course, it's much worse in most European countries. In the U.S., it may be harder to get ahead (past a certain level) without a degree...in many European countries, it seems to be virtually impossible.
Posted by: David Foster at May 18, 2003 at 06:02 PMSteven Den Beste did not finish college. Neither did I, and I'm a highly paid data processing professional. You do not go to college to learn. You go to college to get a piece of paper. That piece of paper will open some doors, but, it's ultimately your brain that has to keep you in the job.
Posted by: Denny Wilson at May 18, 2003 at 10:39 PMI guess that explains why I didn't learn anything in college. And here I had been thinking it was all that beer.
Posted by: David Perron at May 18, 2003 at 11:42 PMCollege isn't about learning.
It's about getting the degree.
I went in hoping it would be about learning, but I was mistaken.
I'm going to get the piece of paper because it's valuable. Not for its own sake, becuase I will be no more talented, capable, or learned than I would have been without college. Indeed, it's been an impediment to learning in many ways. But I'll have the paper, and that's the only important thing.
Becuase the world is stupid enough to believe college degrees mean you've learned something.
Posted by: Dean Esmay at May 19, 2003 at 12:09 AMThis country is chockfull of PhD's in philosophy
and Art History (and others) who are waiting tables and driving taxis. Aside from the sciences
and engineering, college should NOT be a ticket to
a career (are you sociology asshats listening?) I
went to college to learn, all the while knowing
that I would be a contractor when college ended.
I regret neither choice. Getcha classic Liberal
Arts degree, then GET REAL and get to work!
In order to be considered for higher paying jobs that don't include menial labor, etc., then you pretty much need a college degree or some sort of specialized education and training
Bullsh!t. My two wealthiest relatives never finished high school and my two best educated relatives spend a lot of time whining about how unfair it is that they're being paid what they think they deserve.
Posted by: Lynn S at May 19, 2003 at 09:34 AMIn order to be considered for higher paying jobs that don't include menial labor, etc., then you pretty much need a college degree or some sort of specialized education and training
Bullsh!t. My two wealthiest relatives never finished high school and my two best educated relatives spend a lot of time whining about how unfair it is that they're not being paid what they think they deserve.
Posted by: Lynn S at May 19, 2003 at 09:34 AMoops. Sorry about that. The second version of my comment is the correct one. I noticed the mistake and tried to stop it and correct it after I clicked Post.
Posted by: Lynn S at May 19, 2003 at 09:37 AMYes, college is not for everyone and not everyone needs it to be a productive member of society. Many small business owners never finished college and many people in trades and the military led productive and useful lives without college.
Now saying that, a two year degree later in life could be helpful for those individuals. Although many large businesses require degrees of all types, big businesses are not where the the jobs will be plentiful. Big Business want few employees, not more, but the medium and small business need more people to grow and expand so they can't cut staff (or if they do cut staff like big business does, their businesses will eventually die of a system-wide collapse).
For young people today I do NOT recommend a degree in Computer Science or Information Systems because of the constant labor surplus and a lack of consistent licensing and job descriptions in this field.
My contention is that virtually 90% of the most promising computational technologies being developed in 1990 have been discarded, stillborn, or plain ol' "shelved". AI? Extremely limited applications. Computer Assisted Software Engineering? Who needs that when you can import people for $12-$15/hr (in fact, with those prices who needs Software Engineers like me?). Computer Aided Design/Manufacturing? That's old news (AutoCad systems). Crash resistent Operating Systems? We had them in mainframes (by 1980) and minicomputers (by 1990) but the PCs and Macs have just "reinvent the wheel" on this technology (at least Apple has). Distributed multiplexing systems with pure automatic controls (which I designed components for 10 years ago)? No executive can understand why they need this and therefore no one ever buys it for their company. Statistic Analysis software? Old news and old problem of "killing the messenger" of bad financial news. Therefore nothing new (last 10 years) has come out for statistical analysis for mainstream business, who still use SAS, Excel (decendant of Visicalc) and Quick Books (decendant of Peachtree Accounting/dBase/etc). The only thing new is the use of Web Pages (Graphics, Pictures, and Video) on the Internet and now development there is slowing up big time.
XML? Stillborn. Faster bleeding edge PC's? Who needs 'em? Usually a Pentium III 450 is sufficent for normal business functions.
Just my view from the inside out,
Rob