Comments: The Usual Suspects

Charles says:

"Meanwhile, we will continue to show these men of will what will really is."


Oh, goody. You guys are gonna show'em. What's next - a big ol' mushroom cloud? Or just the usual, everyday blood bath? Whatever method you men choose, I'm sure that peace and justice will surely follow. Like it always has in the past.

More violence will smarten everybody up for sure. You can see how smoothly it's working right now.

Guaranteed.


Posted by: MJ at May 12, 2004 at 04:04 PM

MJ, I'm sorry but you mistook my meaning.

The will we demonstrate is self-restraint and a commitment to live up to our ideals. It's damn hard to do when faced with these kinds of atrocities, but, somehow, we manage to do it anyway.

Posted by: charles austin at May 12, 2004 at 04:46 PM


That's all well and good, Charles.

The "self-restraint' you describe would have been more credible if the USA had not jacked around with a sovereign nation to begin with. It would be better if you made your points clear. Because in this theatre of dis-info, mis-info, half lies, outright lies, mixed in with black-ops and media distortion ... it's advantageous to play things straight up - so there are no misunderstandings.

You do suspect there's something bizarre about the whole 'beheading' scenario, don't you?

Posted by: MJ at May 12, 2004 at 05:22 PM

MJ, I'm not sure I am following you now, especially with the 'beheading' scenario. But I will try and be clear about other matters.

I certainly feel no regret about liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein and the Baathists or displacing the Taliban in Afghanistan, if either of those are what you are referring to as the jacking around of a sovereign nation. We may just have to disagree about this, but I have no problem with Bush's proactive preemption policy. I seem to find myself almost alone these days in thinking that by any historical measure whatsoever, what the US and it's partners in the Coalition of the Willing have done in the last two years in absolutely incredible -- in military and in humanitarian terms. Not perfect, but vastly superior to what any nation or group of nations has ever accomplished before. With respect to the US, just imagine what Andrew Jackson, U.S. Grant, George Patton or Douglas MacArthur might have done in a similar situation. And yeah, I do believe we are the good guys.

You are absolutely right about the the difficulty of knowing what is really happening. Welcome to the real world where the players frequently hide their true feelings and focus on the manipulation of perceptions rather than the manipulation of reality, since most of the data we receive has passed through one or more filters before we get it. Facts are precious, so we must continue to seek then out and hold on to them desperately whenever and wherever we can find them.

I admit to being a little obtuse at times, but that's a reaction to my usual tendency to be so damn literal. I'm not sure a promise to try and do better is worth much.

Posted by: charles austin at May 12, 2004 at 06:01 PM

Wow, Charles, you've attracted a real stinky blogroach this time.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 12, 2004 at 08:20 PM

PS: I guess she read your previous post and decided to exhibit some faux outrage.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 12, 2004 at 08:22 PM


First off...
Don't bother to bludgeon me with tales of your righteous glorious american generals. I'm NOT American and I don't get wet eyes about conquest.

QUOTE: from charles...

I certainly feel no regret about liberating Iraq from Saddam Hussein and the Baathists or displacing the Taliban in Afghanistan, if either of those are what you are referring to as the jacking around of a sovereign nation.

This is where we part company, Charles.

You (america) are in no position to be advising the rest of the world about "Liberation". Having no idea of what justice or freedom really means ... you're left with nothing but hubris, jingoism and empty 'patriotic' posture.

I think you (Charles) are trying to play the devil's advocate ... trying to pull someone into an argument.

Nobody could really be that willfully blind.


mj

Posted by: MJ at May 12, 2004 at 08:37 PM

Andrea Harris thinks I am a "Real Stinky Blog Roach". What ever that is.

Won't darken your doorway again, Andrea. For sure.
Bye.

Posted by: mj at May 12, 2004 at 08:44 PM

Gosh, MJ. It's so nice to see you respect the views of others, but that strawman will die if you keep beating it like that.

Who, besides you that is, said anything about getting wet eyes about conquest? Nice handwaving on what we ickypooper Americans don't know as well.

When you want to actually discuss things with people, you might want to avoid putting words in people's mouths right from the start. Projection is also something to be avoided. HTH. HAND.

Posted by: Patrick Chester at May 12, 2004 at 08:48 PM

Bye, MJ! Don't let the virtual door hit you on your cyber ass!

Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 14, 2004 at 10:18 PM

PS: god, what a bitch.

Posted by: Andrea Harris at May 14, 2004 at 10:18 PM